Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

143

Does anyone think that maybe we're just wrong?

by paul from cleveland in

jw
friends

i was disfellowshipped in 1995. even though i lost my friends and family, i felt like i had been finally set free and was happy for many years.

while i was a jehovah's witness, i always felt so miserable.

i never felt like i was doing enough to please jehovah.

Olin Moyles Ghost

To the OP:

I actually agree with some of your points. The UN thing on its own would not be enough to get me to leave. Same thing with child abuse. I'm not excusing either of those courses of action by any means, but if you believe the rest of what the WT teaches (esp. that they were chosen by God), then that should cover over just about any "mistake" they make. Because no matter what bad stuff JW leaders do, they can always point to some Old Testament king (for example, Manasseh) who did something much worse!

So, to me, it boiled down to whether the WTS was chosen by God as they say they were. That's when I started looking into the parable of the FDS and realized what a slim reed the power and authority of the WTS was based on. Here are a few points to chew on:

In the Bible, whenever God chose someone to speak for him, he made it 100% abundantly clear. For example, he gave Moses, Jesus, and the apostles power to perform miracles. No honest-hearted person could doubt that these guys were chosen by God. So why is he so "cagey" today?
If the FDS of Matt. 24 and Luke 12 is really a class with responsibility for leading the Christian Congregation, why is that term not mentioned at all in the rest of the New Testament? Why didn't Paul, James, John, Peter, etc., refer to themselves and to other church leaders in that way? Probably because that's not what the parable means!
If, as the WTS alleges, the FDS existed from 33 A.D. until today, why is there ZERO evidence of any small groups of "true worshippers" (no Trinity, no hell, no immortal soul, using Jah's name, paradise earth, preaching work) between the 2nd century A.D. and C.T. Russell? Fact of the matter is that this doctrine is complete garbage and it falls apart quickly upon close examination.

Personally, I'm skeptical about whether the Bible is what it claims to be (the inspired word of an almighty God). But even if it is the inerrant word of an almighty God, there is little doubt that the JW faith is not what it claims to be (the only way of salvation). To me, the epidemic of false prophecy in the WTS history seals the deal. If you read the gospels, Jesus warned about false prophets (for example, Luke 21:8). The WTS has consistently predicted the end of the world and has been wrong every time. Why would God choose to use an organization that does exactly what his son warned against? That makes zero sense.

So, if the Bible is truly the Word of God, we are likely still in the time of the "wheat and the weeds." We aren't in the "last days" and there's no "invisible presence" of Jesus--this is a man-made doctrine that has tenuous basis in scripture. It's all very contrived and each passing year betrays its falsity.

48

What do you think about Revelation?

by wantstoleave in

how do you put the bible book of revelation into perspective?

do you see it as real?

metaphorical?

Olin Moyles Ghost

PSac wrote: So, what are we to conclude from Revelation? since the end was NOT at hand nor did it come quickly? or did it? or is it?

Perhaps the end came "invisibly"...sorry, just can't help myself...

48

What do you think about Revelation?

by wantstoleave in

how do you put the bible book of revelation into perspective?

do you see it as real?

metaphorical?

Olin Moyles Ghost

Revelation proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is not what it claims to be.

1 Tim 3:16-17 says that all scripture is inspired of God ("god-breathed).
The Bible also says that God cannot lie (e.g., Heb. 6:18, Titus 1:2)

Thus, the Bible claims to be the word of a God who cannot lie. Therefore, if the Bible contains any lies, then it is not the word of a God who cannot lie. It is something else.

Here's where Revelation comes into play. Revelation was written at least 1800 years ago. But Revelation 22:7, 12 states that Jesus is "coming quickly." Well, 1800+ years have passed and Jesus hasn't shown up yet. 1800+ years isn't "quickly" by anyone's standards. Thus, this statement is false. Therefore, the Bible is not what it claims to be.

14

Why Apostate?

by wantstoleave in

this may have been discussed elsewhere on this board but is something i've become increasingly aware of, and that's the apostasy issue.

growing up, i don't think anyone ever explained what it meant, nor did i ask - i just knew it was 'bad' and punishable by disfellowshipping.

therefore it is fairly embarrassing to say that until a few minutes ago and looking it up in a dictionary, i did not know what the meaning was.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Wantstoleave stated: Ghost, you bring up a valid point. One I could use with my father, who resigned from his church when he became a Jw. His parents didn't abandon him or stop talking to him.

And you can take this line of reasoning one step further. Some JWs make statements such as "why can't ex-JWs just leave quietly--why do they have to criticize the Society after they've left?"

Well, isn't that exactly what Witnesses do after they leave their former church? Don't they go door-to-door telling people that other religions (including their former faith) are part of "Babylon the Great" and will be destroyed by God very soon? Don't they try to get their former church members to leave the church and join the JW religion?

14

Why Apostate?

by wantstoleave in

this may have been discussed elsewhere on this board but is something i've become increasingly aware of, and that's the apostasy issue.

growing up, i don't think anyone ever explained what it meant, nor did i ask - i just knew it was 'bad' and punishable by disfellowshipping.

therefore it is fairly embarrassing to say that until a few minutes ago and looking it up in a dictionary, i did not know what the meaning was.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Good points, Jeff. I've had discussions about this very subject with Witnesses. When one brought up the "A" word to me, I said that I'm the only one here who isn't an "Apostate." You (the believing JW) left the religion of your parents and sent a disassociation letter to your old church. Thus, you're an apostate Presbyterian. How would you feel if your parent treated you the way Witness parents treat a son/daughter who sends a letter of disassociation to the Kingdom Hall?

15

New Age Requirement for MTS

by garlic81 in

jw
friends

at our 2 day circuit assembly this weekend they made an announcement for those interested in attending the ministerial training school to meet with the do & co at 9:20 behind the stage this morning.

they said that there is a new revised age requirement, and it is 62 or older.

he again clarified 62 or older, single, and a ministerial servant or an elder.. do you think they feel they've put enough young brothers through the school and now they want old retired individuals who they can send anywhere?

Olin Moyles Ghost

Are you sure it wasn't 62 years or younger? I find it almost impossible to believe that the WTS would decide to only allow retirees to go to MTS. MTS has always been a program for young, single, brothers.

More than likely the announcement was that the age limit for MTS had expanded to include men up to age 62. (or perhaps the guy making the announcement messed up and said "over age 62" when he meant to say "under age 62") I'm not sure if there was an official age cut-off, but I've heard of unofficial age cut-offs of 50 years old in the context of entering the circuit work.

This would make sense. In the U.S and other "developed" countries, life expectancy continues to grow. Today, there are plenty of folks in their sixties who are active and healthy. The WTS is probably recognizing that fact, and is now going to allow single elders/MS in their 50s and early 60s to go to MTS.

Some of these single elders/MS in their 50s could be recently downsized Bethelites.

12

socially...how often do they even talk about da troof??

by oompa in

jw
friends

when i was a dub.....and had such good friends...party friends....vacation friends.....we never even did the morning text, cause we all woke up at different times depending on how much we drank the night before.........we could be on a cruise, at a beach house, or riding board in colorado......and damm....spiritual wt conversation was not in the picture!!........

so kinda funny that they all shun me now, even though i am not dfd........so if i had them over sociall....should they even come, what are they afraid of?...........i mean back then the bible shit never ever came up anyway............oompa.

did you guys have friends who were all dubby on vaca/holiday or at parties?

Olin Moyles Ghost

Oompa, my JW friends were/are like yours. If you observed us on vacation or socializing, you probably couldn't tell that we were Witnesses.

But I've noticed that it only takes one "spiritual" JW to suggest studying the WT, doing the text, etc. Most will cave to the peer pressure and guilt. Personally, I always tried to avoid vacationing with those dubs.

101

Lurkers and Jehovah's Witnesses- The WT Lied to you about " Generation "

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know this has been re-hashed many times here.

in great detail with quotes from former watchtower articles, etc.

i'm going to cut to the chase and just make this brief and direct.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for the post, Flipper. The "1914 generation" teaching is a perfect example of how the WT Society promulgates false doctrines and teachings of men. When you mention your elderly parents, it reminds me of Proverbs 13:12 which reads "expectation postponed is making the heart sick."

The WT Society has been in the business of speculating and falsely predicting the end of the world for almost exactly 130 years now. Sure, the Society has become a bit more crafty in recent decades--for example, identifying the "generation of 1914" as the terminal point for this system of things instead of predicting dates like they did for 1914, 1915, 1918, and 1925.

But the modern Society is selling the same stuff ("Millions Now Living Will Never Die") in slicker packaging. They've learned to be crafty enough to give themselves some wiggle room--no more firm dates, just sly innuendo. And as long as we're alive there are going to be some people gullible and desperate enough to follow these men. And when we're gone, Armageddon will be nowhere to be found.

21

Do JWs pave the way for Agnosticism/Atheism? My story.

by Open mind in

most j.w.s i grew up around werent superstitious.

friday the 13th, walking under ladders and spilled salt were for the blind and the ignorant.

we had been set free and knew better.. to be sure, some j.w.s had their own special theocratic superstitions.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I agree 100%. I grew up in a strict JW household, but we weren't superstitious. We made fun of "holy rollers" and "Jesus freaks"...all the while spending our Saturday mornings trying to convert people to our religion...strange.

As I got older, I always favored the secular side of things in the American "culture wars." As a believing Witness, I was against prayer in schools and against teaching creationism/Intelligent Design in public schools. Many times as a young person I said to myself that if I didn't have "The Truth," I would almost certainly be an atheist/agnostic.

For many folks, JW-ism is the gateway drug for secular humanism. The WT poisons the well when it comes to other religions. Many JWs identify their belief system more by what it is not than what it is (e.g., no Trinity, immortal soul, or hell). So, when a JW realizes that JW-ism is false, it's difficult to join another church that likely teaches all 3 of the aforementioned "Babylonish false doctrines."

Kind of like how Richard Dawkins says--everyone is an atheist about most gods (e.g., Thor, Zeus, Wotan); I just take it one god further. That's what many ex-Witnesses do. And it's perfectly understandable and should be expected.

23

What would you say are THE core teachings of the JWs...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey everyone,.

getting some feedback, what would you say are the core teachings or were the core teachings of the jehovah's witnesses.

the teachings that make them unique, the teachings that if they weren't there the jehovah's witnesses wouldn't exist.. i would say the teaching of 1914 and god choosing jws as the right religion would probably be the core teaching.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Undercover, those "big 3" were the ones that were important to me when I was a believing JW. I remember going out in service and I LOVED to talk about the Trinity. I had dozens of smart-@$$ comebacks for Trinitarians (who was Jesus praying to? was God really dead for 3 days? who resurrected him?, etc.). It was too much fun.

I think these "big 3" doctrines are a large part of what keeps some Witnesses in the religion even if they see issues with doctrines, failed prophecies, corrupt leadership, etc. They say that nobody else is right. I actually agree with this statement--if you remove the word "else."